Racing Rules Discussion

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Racing Rules Discussion

Postby Kix Jannings » Fri Sep 21, 2007 3:14 pm

After reading a number of recent posts here on racing rules, I thought it would be a good idea to start a discussion thread on rules-related issues.
I don't have many answers, but, like most sailors, I have a ton of questions about applying RL sailing rules to SL. This forum may be a good place to discuss SL racing rules issues.
I appreciate this has been done before, but I think it's worthwhile to collect a lot of the past decisions in one forum again to discuss specific issues and complications.
That's 'progress,' right?
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ROW at a Mark when boats are on opposing tack

Postby Kix Jannings » Fri Sep 21, 2007 3:52 pm

When 2 boats on different tacks approach a marker in SL, who has ROW?
Under Rule 18, I understand that if boats are overlapped as they enter the 'two boat length' marker zone, the windward boat needs to give room.
However, this rule is 'turned off' if the boats are on opposite tacks. That implies the Starboard boat has ROW when two boats are overlapped at a mark. This came up twice today in SL, and the 'official' SL rules I can find are confusing on this point.
This might sound esoteric. It's not. In fact, if you look carefully at many SL race charts, it's clear you'd consider a different race strategy if you knew the starboard boat had ROW when overlapped boats rounded a mark in SL.
I think the SL Rule on this should be clarified, since we now mostly ignore the point and bang into each other at the mark... [I admit that's fun too]
Last edited by Kix Jannings on Fri Sep 21, 2007 5:07 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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Just an ongoing list of Rules discussions

Postby Kix Jannings » Fri Sep 21, 2007 4:04 pm

Any single race has rules determined by the race organizer or race committee. Hopefully, most races try to stick to a common set of rules that reflect SL's adaptation of the IASF Rules.
Over the next couple days I'll try to collect some of those links here for people who need an 'SL Sailing Rules' Fix.
I think all sailors, especially SL sailors, end up needing help on specific racing rule points. I'm trying to understand which rules apply to SL, and I'd appreciate people's input to help us SL sailing 'grunts.'
Many people have spent a lot of time thinking about these issues. Here are some SLSF Posted discussions:
http://slsailing.org/forum/viewtopic.php?t=1018
http://slsailing.org/forum/viewtopic.php?t=1289
http://slsailing.org/forum/viewtopic.php?t=880

RL IASF Rules:
http://www.sailing.org/rrs2005/
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Re: ROW at a Mark when boats are on opposing tack

Postby MarkTwain White » Fri Sep 21, 2007 6:29 pm

Kix Jannings wrote:When 2 boats on different tacks approach a marker in SL, who has ROW?
Under Rule 18, I understand that if boats are overlapped as they enter the 'two boat length' marker zone, the windward boat needs to give room.
However, this rule is 'turned off' if the boats are on opposite tacks. That implies the Starboard boat has ROW when two boats are overlapped at a mark.


Your photo "rule18issue.jpg" ought to be entitled "rule10issue.jpg" as it is an excellent example of Rule 10 (the Starboards Rights rule). :)

The starboard boat is the "right of way" boat and has rights to the space both boats are trying to occupy. As you correctly noted, Rule 18 (Rounding Marks) is turned off when boats are on opposite tacks. Rule 18 does not apply here and thus this is a simple Rule 10 situation. The port boat must either turn behind the oncoming starboard boat, tack onto starboard to avoid a collision, or slow the boat down to avoid colliding with the starboard boat.
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Re: ROW at a Mark when boats are on opposing tack

Postby Kix Jannings » Fri Sep 21, 2007 7:05 pm

MarkTwain White wrote: Your photo "rule18issue.jpg" ought to be entiled "rule 10issue.jpg" as it is an excellent example of Rule 10 (the Starboards Rights rule). The starboard boat is the "right of way" boat and has rights to the space both boats are trying to occupy. This is not a Rule 18 situation and overlap is therefore not an issue. ...

Thanks; I think that's clear, and consistent with IASF.

"1o trumps 18" helps solve several discussions about what rules apply in SL in the 2-boat zone around a race mark.
The Rule's also easy to use on-the-fly in SL, and could reduce
the multi-vehicle collisions that are pretty common near race markers.
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Postby Gairlochan Lisle » Sat Sep 22, 2007 9:40 am

Is there a set of basic SL sailing rules available in-world or elsewhere, or are the RL rules used? If there are SL rules, where would I go to find them?
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Postby Kix Jannings » Sat Sep 22, 2007 12:38 pm

Gairlochan Lisle wrote:Is there a set of basic SL sailing rules available in-world or elsewhere, or are the RL rules used? If there are SL rules, where would I go to find them?

There's a great self-paced introduction to Sailboat Race Rules at Starboards Yacht Club. That's the best place to start.
Exactly how those Rules get applied in SL will depend on the nature of the race and the preference of a race's organizing committee.
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The Racing Rules of Sailing as Used in SL

Postby MarkTwain White » Sat Sep 22, 2007 2:49 pm

Gairlochan Lisle wrote:Is there a set of basic SL sailing rules available in-world or elsewhere, or are the RL rules used? If there are SL rules, where would I go to find them?


Here is a link to the rules that have in general been used in SL sailboat racing for some time. Formally speaking, these are the rules for the Tako Cup, but they are the same rules that were used in the ACA-SL Cup this past summer and the same rules that, by and large, are used by the active yacht clubs in Second Life.

http://www.slsailing.org/forum/viewtopic.php?t=1157

The six protestable rules we use are illustrated in video from the US Sailing web site (with permission) at the Starboards Yacht Club clubhouse.

As an historical note, at Starboards Yacht Club we have tried a variety of rule sets (all based on the ISAF Racing Rules of Sailing). You can check the rules out at the ISAF web site here: http://sailing.org/rrs2005/ These sets ranged from full rule book, to no rules (bumper boats). The two most common rule sets we have used in the past are:

1. The current set of 6 protestable rules (along with the 9 fundamenal rules of SL sailboat racing)
2. Starboard Rihts Only rule - Rule 10 of the RL rulebook (along with the 9 fundamental rules of SL sailboat racing).

Further historical note: those with the stomach for it can dive deep in to the Forum archives and read the history of how the rules have been used and abused. The corinthian spirit of good sportsmanship was, from time to time, far from the scene in some of that history. :cry:
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Postby Alberik Rotaru » Sun Sep 23, 2007 8:17 am

Gairlochan Lisle wrote:Is there a set of basic SL sailing rules available in-world or elsewhere, or are the RL rules used? If there are SL rules, where would I go to find them?


Gairlochan

You could try Boat Books Australia http://www.boatbooks-aust.com.au/ for a copy of the racing rules. The ISAF rules are at http://www.sailing.org/tools/documents/RRS2005-2008-[502].pdf

Yachting Australia uses the same rules promulgated by the ISAF as the sailing federations in other countries. I've raced in the washing machine* and seen a deal more rulesiness there then I've ever seen raised in this forum. It just seems to be something sailors do.

*Sydney's got a big harbour, but there are a lot of boats.
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Postby Kix Jannings » Sun Sep 23, 2007 9:29 am

I started this topic a couple days ago to keep a discussion going about some practical application of sailing rules in SL.
Since then I've had a chance to go over M1sha Dalin's thread on this issue http://slsailing.org/forum/viewtopic.php?t=1018 .
I think M1sha's views show a great deal of thought on the subject.
To keep from cluttering up the Board here, I'd like to close this topic thread, and I'll add any future comments to M1sha's thread.
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