should the big boat races be split up?

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should the big boat races be split up?

Postby Yuukie Onmura » Tue Nov 20, 2007 2:20 am

Last sundays BBR showed it again, the larinda's a lot faster on the same wind than every other trudeau big boat...

Guess the big boat races should be split up, "normal" big boats in one class, and larindas in their own.

I mean, you don't race takos against beach cats either.
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Re: should the big boat races be split up?

Postby Jane Fossett » Tue Nov 20, 2007 4:39 am

Yuukie Onmura wrote:Last sundays BBR showed it again, the larinda's a lot faster on the same wind than every other trudeau big boat...
Guess the big boat races should be split up, "normal" big boats in one class, and larindas in their own.
I mean, you don't race takos against beach cats either.

Hi Yuukie!
This topic is probably better off posted in the "Trudeau Racing Thread," where we've discussed similar issues for the past ten months.
In February I raised the issue of 'handicapping' different big-boats.
Jacqueline Trudeau graciously responded by posting the 'power conversions' for the Trudeau boats at that time.
Perhaps if we ask nicely, JT will tell us where the Larinda fits in that scheme. I agree it seems a bit faster than my Trucordia yawl.

I'd also comment that the sim overload problem seems fixed by the 'Trudeau Lite Racing" editions, that we've installed a second start line just in case it isn't fixed, and that we've just changed the Sunday Big Boat Race time to a more convenient 4:00pm. I'm therefore sort of disinclined at the moment to add a new "Larinda only" race, unless there is strong interest for it in the Trudeau Racing Thread. I guess I'd also be concerned a Larinda race might discourage other Trudeau model owners from racing their boats... which I certainly do not want to do.
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Re: should the big boat races be split up?

Postby Yuukie Onmura » Tue Nov 20, 2007 4:49 pm

Jane Fossett wrote:Perhaps if we ask nicely, JT will tell us where the Larinda fits in that scheme. I agree it seems a bit faster than my Trucordia yawl.


I just ran a test: from trudeau cay due south with "skipper wind" with 10 m/s at 180°, makes for a nice 45° sail angle.
Top speed: 7.1 m/s. anyone got a larinda handy for the same run?


Jane Fossett wrote:I guess I'd also be concerned a Larinda race might discourage other Trudeau model owners from racing their boats... which I certainly do not want to do.


right now the presence of more than one larinda discourages me from racing my yawl...
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Re: should the big boat races be split up?

Postby Lance Corrimal » Tue Nov 20, 2007 5:00 pm

Yuukie Onmura wrote:I just ran a test: from trudeau cay due south with "skipper wind" with 10 m/s at 180°, makes for a nice 45° sail angle.
Top speed: 7.1 m/s. anyone got a larinda handy for the same run?


Same wind, same run: top speed 8.5 m/s.

or in percent: almost 20% faster.
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Re: should the big boat races be split up?

Postby Jacqueline Trudeau » Mon Nov 26, 2007 12:52 pm

Jane Fossett wrote:In February I raised the issue of 'handicapping' different big-boats.
Jacqueline Trudeau graciously responded by posting the 'power conversions' for the Trudeau boats at that time.
Perhaps if we ask nicely, JT will tell us where the Larinda fits in that scheme. I agree it seems a bit faster than my Trucordia yawl.


hmmmm. in addition to a "governor" based on waterline length the newer boats have all points of sail tweaked to some respect in an attempt to model the rig. i don't think i could give a percentage to percentage comparison anymore.

IMO, it would probably be best for a single experienced sailor to do a series of timed trials with the various boats, hot laps style, and base any handicapping on those inworld results. if someone wants to volunteer for that, i'll drop copies of all the boats on them for the purpose. :)
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"Hotlaps for the Handicap"

Postby Jane Fossett » Mon Nov 26, 2007 3:07 pm

I like the idea of collecting data to Handicap the Big-boats.
The issue nicely overlaps our discussion of "constant wind" settings for hotlaps comparisons as well.

Here's what I think:
1. I'll set up a thread in the Race Results section for "Trudeau Handicap Hotlaps"
2. We can use NYC B-1a, since most Big-Boat racing skippers are familiar with it, and it includes all points of sail.
3. The windsetter should be set for constant wind, based on the the "Standard" SLSF Race WindSettings. In other words, use this:
dir: 5, spd: 11.000000, dir+-: 0, spd+-: 0.000000, rate: 1.000000
4. People can then enter their hotlaps times, as well as the boat they use, etc, etc.
5. Since we are trying to compare the performance of different Trudeau boats on the same course, skippers should post what they consider to be their "good" finish times, not just their "absolute best" times. A "good finish time" would be the time it takes them to complete the course without making mistakes and without excessive lag. If a skipper does several laps and comes up with fairly consistent "good finish times," they should post each of the scores, not just the best one.
6. Since we are trying to compare performance, it would be most helpful if skippers could post their results sailing multiple boats. Since many big boat racers own a variety of Trudeau models, this should not be a problem. However, when posting results they should please make sure to note whether they raced a "Full" or "Lite" version of the boat.

When we get enough data to do some statistics... the real fun might begin! I can see it now.... "The Trudeau Yacht Racing PHRF Cup..."
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