Trudeau Handicap Hotlaps

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Trudeau Handicap Hotlaps

Postby Jane Fossett » Mon Nov 26, 2007 3:37 pm

We are trying to handicap the different Trudeau Yachts so we can compare the Big-Boat Race results. If you have different Trudeau Boats and want to collect some hotlaps data for the handicap, here are some guidelines:

1. Post your hotlaps, comments, or Q's in this thread ("Trudeau Handicap Hotlaps")
2. Use NYC B-1a as your Hotlaps Race Course. Most Big-Boat racing skippers are familiar with it, and it includes all points of sail. (NOTE: PLEASE USE THE NEW USS F4 RACE COURSE BEGINNING FEBRUARY 5 2008)
3. The windsetter should be set for constant wind, based on the the "Standard" SLSF Race WindSettings. In other words, use these settings:
dir: 5, spd: 11.000000, dir+-: 0, spd+-: 0.000000, rate: 1.000000
4. When you post your hotlaps results, please enter your hotlap time, as well as the boat you use, etc, etc.... just like regular hotlaps.
5. Since we are trying to compare the performance of different Trudeau boats on the same course, skippers should post what they consider to be their "good" finish times, not just their "absolute best" times. A "good finish time" would be the time it takes them to complete the course without making mistakes and without excessive lag. If a skipper does several laps and comes up with fairly consistent "good finish times," they should post each of the scores, not just the best one.
6. Since we are trying to compare performance, it would be most helpful if skippers could post their results sailing multiple boats. Since many big boat racers own a variety of Trudeau models, this should not be a problem. However, when posting results they should please make sure to note whether they raced a "Full" or "Lite" version of the boat.
7. Don't worry about the "Start time." The handicap comparison should be based on the actual course time, in other words, the Finish time minus the Start Time.

Once we have enough data to do handicaps, we can start planning the "Trudeau Yacht Racing PHRF Cup."
Last edited by Jane Fossett on Tue Feb 05, 2008 12:15 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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Yawl Full

Postby Jane Fossett » Mon Nov 26, 2007 8:37 pm

BOAT: Trucordia Yawl JAVA (full)
Course: NYC B1
Crew: Vin Marini
Wind: NYC standard, no deviance (spd 11)


[19:36] Start Line (2 Way): Race Results:
[19:36] Start Line (2 Way): 1: Jane Fossett - +00:08:31
[19:36] Start Line (2 Way): Lap Times:
[19:36] Start Line (2 Way): Jane Fossett-- lap 0: +00:00:15
[19:36] Start Line (2 Way): Jane Fossett-- lap 1: +00:08:31

Lap time: 8:16
Last edited by Jane Fossett on Sat Dec 01, 2007 11:43 am, edited 2 times in total.
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Yawl, Defender

Postby Jane Fossett » Mon Nov 26, 2007 8:58 pm

BOAT: Trucordia Yawl JAVA (full)
Course: NYC B1
Skipper: Jane Fossett
Crew: Vin Marini
Wind: NYC standard, no deviance (spd 11)

BOAT: Defender II Cat's Meow (full)
Course: NYC B1
Skipper: RnSdriver Lane
Wind: NYC standard, no deviance (spd 11)


[20:07] You shout: +results
[20:07] Start Line (2 Way): Race Results:
[20:07] Start Line (2 Way): 1: Jane Fossett - +00:08:41
[20:07] Start Line (2 Way): 2: RnSdriver Lane - +00:08:43
[20:07] Start Line (2 Way): Lap Times:
[20:07] Start Line (2 Way): Jane Fossett-- lap 0: +00:00:10
[20:07] Start Line (2 Way): RnSdriver Lane-- lap 0: +00:00:18
[20:07] Start Line (2 Way): Jane Fossett-- lap 1: +00:08:41
[20:07] Start Line (2 Way): RnSdriver Lane-- lap 1: +00:08:43

Net Lap times:
JF Yawl Full: 8:31
RD Def2 Full: 8:25
Last edited by Jane Fossett on Sat Dec 01, 2007 11:46 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Larinda Lite

Postby RnSdriver Lane » Mon Nov 26, 2007 9:46 pm

BOAT: Larinda Lite Tiggers Toy
Course: NYC B1
Crew: none
Wind: NYC standard, no deviance (spd 11)





[20:34] Start Line (2 Way): Race Results:
[20:34] Start Line (2 Way): 1: RnSdriver Lane - +00:07:05
[20:34] Start Line (2 Way): Lap Times:
[20:34] Start Line (2 Way): RnSdriver Lane-- lap 0: +00:00:20
[20:34] Start Line (2 Way): Jane Fossett-- lap 0: +00:00:22
[20:34] Start Line (2 Way): RnSdriver Lane-- lap 1: +00:07:05

Lap time = 6:45
Last edited by RnSdriver Lane on Tue Nov 27, 2007 10:20 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Defender II lite (30 prims)

Postby Bea Woodget » Tue Nov 27, 2007 6:50 am

BOAT: Defender II Lite (30 prim)
Course: NYC B1
Skipper: Bea Woodget
Wind: NYC standard, no deviance (spd 11)


[5:52] Start Line (2 Way): Race Results:
[5:52] Start Line (2 Way): 1: Bea Woodget - +00:07:59
[5:52] Start Line (2 Way): Lap Times:
[5:52] Start Line (2 Way): Bea Woodget-- lap 0: +00:00:29
[5:52] Start Line (2 Way): Bea Woodget-- lap 1: +00:07:59 (lap = 00:07:30)

[5:53] SLSF Race Wind Setter (On/Off, group) shouts: dir: 5, spd: 11.000000, dir+-: 0, spd+-: 0.000000, rate: 1.000000
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Postby Vin Mariani » Tue Nov 27, 2007 7:15 am

Good point, Bea. We don't need to hustle over the line right at the horn for this type of benchmark. All that matters is our time from start to finish.
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Defender II, no deviants...

Postby Jane Fossett » Tue Nov 27, 2007 7:29 am

BOAT: Defender II "Jane's Air" (full)
Course: NYC B1
Skipper: Jane Fossett
Crew: none
Wind: NYC standard, no deviance (spd 11)

[6:33] You shout: +results
[6:33] Start Line (2 Way): Race Results:
[6:33] Start Line (2 Way): 1: Jane Fossett - +00:08:14
[6:33] Start Line (2 Way): Lap Times:
[6:33] Start Line (2 Way): Jane Fossett-- lap 0: +00:00:18
[6:33] Start Line (2 Way): Jane Fossett-- lap 1: +00:08:14

Net Lap time: 7:56
Last edited by Jane Fossett on Sat Dec 01, 2007 11:48 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Larinda Lite, ACA32

Postby Jane Fossett » Tue Nov 27, 2007 10:55 am

BOAT: Larinda Schooner (Lite)
Course: NYC B1
Skipper: Jane Fossett
Crew: none


BOAT: ACA32 (full)
Skipper: Andrea Lednev
Wind: NYC standard, no deviance (spd 11)


[9:52] You shout: +results
[9:52] Start Line (2 Way): Race Results:
[9:52] Start Line (2 Way): 1: Andrea Lednev - +00:07:27 (net 7:15)
[9:52] Start Line (2 Way): 2: Jane Fossett - +00:07:35 (net 7:29)
[9:52] Start Line (2 Way): Lap Times:
[9:52] Start Line (2 Way): Jane Fossett-- lap 0: +00:00:06
[9:52] Start Line (2 Way): Andrea Lednev-- lap 0: +00:00:12
[9:52] Start Line (2 Way): Andrea Lednev-- lap 1: +00:07:27
[9:52] Start Line (2 Way): Jane Fossett-- lap 1: +00:07:35
Last edited by Jane Fossett on Sat Dec 01, 2007 11:59 am, edited 2 times in total.
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Three yawl lites

Postby Jane Fossett » Sat Dec 01, 2007 11:35 am

[quote="Jane Fossett"]BOAT: Trucordia Yawl (Lite)
Course: NYC B1
Skipper: Jane Fossett
Crew: none
Wind: NYC standard, no deviance (spd 11)


Inclement weather today at sim crossings on B-1a;
these runs may be a bit sub-optimum, and perhaps the first should be thrown out... the second and third tries were pretty similar, though:

[10:13] Start Line (2 Way): Race Results:
[10:13] Start Line (2 Way): 1: Jane Fossett - +00:08:42
[10:13] Start Line (2 Way): Lap Times:
[10:13] Start Line (2 Way): Jane Fossett-- lap 0: +00:00:04
[10:13] Start Line (2 Way): Jane Fossett-- lap 1: +00:08:42

[10:26] Start Line (2 Way): Race Results:
[10:26] Start Line (2 Way): 1: Jane Fossett - +00:08:12
[10:26] Start Line (2 Way): Lap Times:
[10:26] Start Line (2 Way): Jane Fossett-- lap 0: +00:00:09
[10:26] Start Line (2 Way): Jane Fossett-- lap 1: +00:08:12

[10:39] Start Line (2 Way): Race Results:
[10:39] Start Line (2 Way): 1: Jane Fossett - +00:08:21
[10:39] Start Line (2 Way): Lap Times:
[10:39] Start Line (2 Way): Jane Fossett-- lap 0: +00:00:07
[10:39] Start Line (2 Way): Jane Fossett-- lap 1: +00:08:21

Net course times: 8:38, 8:03, 8:14
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Postby M1sha Dallin » Sun Dec 02, 2007 2:03 am

NYC B1A
Solo

ACA 32 No Variance

Lap 1

[0:11] You: +results
[0:11] Start Line (2 Way): Race Results:
[0:11] Start Line (2 Way): 1: M1sha Dallin - +00:05:50
[0:11] Start Line (2 Way): Lap Times:
[0:11] Start Line (2 Way): M1sha Dallin-- lap 0: +00:00:04
[0:11] Start Line (2 Way): M1sha Dallin-- lap 1: +00:05:50 (05:46 Net)

Lap 2

[0:20] You: +results
[0:20] Start Line (2 Way): Race Results:
[0:20] Start Line (2 Way): 1: M1sha Dallin - +00:05:52
[0:20] Start Line (2 Way): Lap Times:
[0:20] Start Line (2 Way): M1sha Dallin-- lap 0: +00:00:05
[0:20] Start Line (2 Way): M1sha Dallin-- lap 1: +00:05:52 (05:47 Net)

Consistent - so happy there.

Larinda Heavy

Lap 1

[0:35] You: +results
[0:35] Start Line (2 Way): Race Results:
[0:35] Start Line (2 Way): 1: M1sha Dallin - +00:07:03
[0:35] Start Line (2 Way): Lap Times:
[0:35] Start Line (2 Way): M1sha Dallin-- lap 0: +00:00:16
[0:35] Start Line (2 Way): M1sha Dallin-- lap 1: +00:07:03 (06:47 Net)

Later runs were slightly faster.


[3:36] You: +results
[3:36] Start Line (2 Way): Race Results:
[3:36] Start Line (2 Way): 1: M1sha Dallin - +00:06:43
[3:36] Start Line (2 Way): Lap Times:
[3:36] Start Line (2 Way): M1sha Dallin-- lap 0: +00:00:10
[3:36] Start Line (2 Way): M1sha Dallin-- lap 1: +00:06:43 (06:33 Net)

[3:50] You: +results
[3:50] Start Line (2 Way): Race Results:
[3:50] Start Line (2 Way): 1: M1sha Dallin - +00:06:45
[3:50] Start Line (2 Way): Lap Times:
[3:50] Start Line (2 Way): M1sha Dallin-- lap 0: +00:00:07
[3:50] Start Line (2 Way): M1sha Dallin-- lap 1: +00:06:45 (06:38 Net)

Have now set up Yawl gestures so will add those later.
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Snapshot of Trudeau Hotlaps Data

Postby Jane Fossett » Sun Dec 02, 2007 12:20 pm

I quickly looked at the Trudeau Handicap Hotlaps data so far.

I calculated the average "net lap time" for each boat class.
Since the scores were very similar and we only have a few data points so far,
I then merged the data for the "Lite" and "Full" versions in each class.
The averages and standard deviations are listed below for the Larinda Schooner, Trucodia Yawl, Defender II, and the ACA32.
I then calculated a performance "weight" for the boats, using the Yawl as the reference point ("1.00").
So far the hot laps data gives the Defender II a weight of 1.05 (5% faster than the Yawl).
That's consistent with most people's opinion a over the past year that The Yawl and Defender II are pretty equally matched for racing.
I suspect any slight advantage for the Defender in our data is mostly due to RnS's sailing skill.

However, I have to give a big shout out to Yuukie and Lance!
They estimated the Larinda Schooner was 20% faster than the yawl.
Well, they certainly nailed it!
The hot laps data so far shows the Larinda has a 22% faster net lap time on NYC B-1!

Also no surprise, the ACA32 has the fastest lap times, it's on average 33% faster than the yawl.

It's way too early to come to any conclusions since all of these comparisons are based on a very small number of data points,
but I think the hot laps comparisons are encouraging.
So far the scores within each boat class are reasonably consistent,
and the rough comparisons across the classes are surprisingly close to what I think we've all guessed.

Let's get more data and see how it turns out!
Last edited by Jane Fossett on Mon Dec 03, 2007 7:08 am, edited 1 time in total.
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so what do we make of it?

Postby Yuukie Onmura » Sun Dec 02, 2007 12:44 pm

temporary suggestion:

don't mix larindas with other big boats than maybe ACA32.
At least not for fun races like the weekly big boat races.
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Sea Sharp

Postby Jane Fossett » Sun Dec 02, 2007 11:51 pm

BOAT: Sea Sharp
Course: NYC B1
Skipper: Oliphant Ming
Crew: Jane Fossett
Wind: NYC standard, no deviance (spd 11)


[22:52] Start Line (2 Way): Race Results:
[22:52] Start Line (2 Way): 1: Oliphant Ming - +00:12:43
[22:52] Start Line (2 Way): Lap Times:
[22:52] Start Line (2 Way): Oliphant Ming-- lap 0: +00:00:07
[22:52] Start Line (2 Way): Oliphant Ming-- lap 1: +00:12:43 (net 12:36)
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Postby M1sha Dallin » Mon Dec 03, 2007 3:30 am

BOAT: Yawl Heavy
Course: NYC B1
Skipper: M1sha Dallin
Crew: None
Wind: NYC standard, no deviance (spd 11)

Consistent enough

Lap 1

[2:08] You: +results
[2:08] Start Line (2 Way): Race Results:
[2:08] Start Line (2 Way): 1: M1sha Dallin - +00:07:12
[2:08] Start Line (2 Way): Lap Times:
[2:08] Start Line (2 Way): M1sha Dallin-- lap 0: +00:00:08
[2:08] Start Line (2 Way): M1sha Dallin-- lap 1: +00:07:12 (Net 07:04)


Lap 2

[2:21] You: +results
[2:21] Start Line (2 Way): Race Results:
[2:21] Start Line (2 Way): 1: M1sha Dallin - +00:07:15
[2:21] Start Line (2 Way): Lap Times:
[2:21] Start Line (2 Way): M1sha Dallin-- lap 0: +00:00:16
[2:21] Start Line (2 Way): M1sha Dallin-- lap 1: +00:07:15 (Net 06:59)

Summarising my results I get:

ACA32 Average 05:46.5 = 346.5 secs Relative 0.82 weight = 1.22
Larinda Average 06:39 = 399 secs Relative 0.94 weight =1.06
Yawl Average 07:01.5 = 421.5 Relative 1.0 weight = 1.0

Which suggests that my ACA32 and Larinda times were poor - I should have 05:17 and 05:52 respectively based on Jane's calculations so far)
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Postby M1sha Dallin » Mon Dec 03, 2007 5:04 am

BOAT: Defender Heavy
Course: NYC B1
Skipper: M1sha Dallin
Crew: None
Wind: NYC standard, no deviance (spd 11)

For completeness I bought a Defender. Can't get the jib to Tack via a chat command though.


[3:44] You: +results
[3:44] Start Line (2 Way): Race Results:
[3:44] Start Line (2 Way): 1: M1sha Dallin - +00:07:06
[3:44] Start Line (2 Way): Lap Times:
[3:44] Start Line (2 Way): M1sha Dallin-- lap 0: +00:00:00
[3:44] Start Line (2 Way): M1sha Dallin-- lap 1: +00:07:06 (Net 07:06)

[3:54] You: +results
[3:54] Start Line (2 Way): Race Results:
[3:54] Start Line (2 Way): 1: M1sha Dallin - +00:07:11
[3:54] Start Line (2 Way): Lap Times:
[3:54] Start Line (2 Way): M1sha Dallin-- lap 0: +00:00:03
[3:54] Start Line (2 Way): M1sha Dallin-- lap 1: +00:07:11 (Net 07:08 )

Which put sthe Defender slightly slower than the Yawl for me.
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