PHRF HANDICAP HOTLAPS

[Liv Leigh]

There may be more issues here.. different course types simply give much different results for different boat types. The Z40 is for instance very fast and turns slowly. While it'd gain a lot on a course with long straight ends, in a short course, it won't win as much percentually. The beach cat is a little slower, but turns faster and has a fearsome acceleration... so on. they all have their ideal environment with their specific characteristics. Are those all fully enough included in our test environment?

For instance we have the downwind issue: some of the boats in the handicap list are about at their best on a dead run downwind, while others prefer a 140 degree wind instead and making extra meters. NYC Hotlaps contains no dead run part.. So this capacity is not included in the formula...

[Alain Gloster]

Good point,
What I was doing in a skulsje was heading off the pink bouy at 120 deg wind until the line was downwind of me and then winging - mind you if you look at the times I'm pretty slow in a skulsje

What I thought was the first two lines gave you a good upwind and broad reach indicator but downwind was angled (maybe go to the pink bouy from manning and then back to the yellow would fix that, but thats only off the top of my head?)

[Gemma Vuckovic]

Skippers:
Gemma Vuckovic - Tetra35
Course: NYC Hotlaps 2008
Wind: Predef Hotlaps- dir:340, spd:11, dir+-:0, spd+-:0, rate:1


[16:08] Start Line (052108): Race Results:
[16:08] Start Line (052108): 1: Gemma Vuckovic - +00:08:09
[16:08] Start Line (052108): Lap Times:
[16:08] Start Line (052108): Gemma Vuckovic-- lap 0: +00:00:03
[16:08] Start Line (052108): Gemma Vuckovic-- lap 1: +00:08:09

NETT 8.06

[Alain Gloster]

Good point,
What I was doing in a skulsje was heading off the pink bouy at 120 deg wind until the line was downwind of me and then winging - mind you if you look at the times I'm pretty slow in a skulsje

What I thought was the first two lines gave you a good upwind and broad reach indicator but downwind was angled (maybe go to the pink bouy from manning and then back to the yellow would fix that, but thats only off the top of my head?)

Another thought (I love quoting myself )
Based on a quick google of the US PRHF FAQ
Assume the current hotlaps course is the baseline handicap and introduce an adjustment mechanism (aka some poor bunny) to look at ongoing results and maintain handicap adjustments based on that. Statistically, you'd want at least a month of sailing PRHF on various courses before putting them up, and you'd need an approval mechanism so the various yacht club managements and RD's can argue against it (there usually isn't a better indication of a wrong statistic than the gut feeling of the people that see it in action)

[Liv Leigh]

BOAT: Trudeau Sojourner #Circe
Course: NYC Hotlaps 2008
Crew: Solo
Wind: Predef Hotlaps- dir:340, spd:11, dir+-:0, spd+-:0, rate:1


Start Line (052108): 1: Liv Leigh - +00:14:38
Start Line (052108): Lap Times:
Start Line (052108): Liv Leigh-- lap 0: +00:00:50
Start Line (052108): Liv Leigh-- lap 1: +00:14:38

Net. time: 13:48

[Jane Fossett]

There may be more issues here.. different course types simply give much different results for different boat types. The Z40 is for instance very fast and turns slowly. While it'd gain a lot on a course with long straight ends, in a short course, it won't win as much percentually. The beach cat is a little slower, but turns faster and has a fearsome acceleration... so on. they all have their ideal environment with their specific characteristics. Are those all fully enough included in our test environment? ...

I agree. That's why we couldn't just rely on a simple comparison of the power scripts from different boats. How quickly a boat laps a race course depends on many other factors.
The Z-40 is a good example of this.
I also agree the configuration of the test course can have an impact on the relative performance scores of the boats. That's a major reason we compared two different courses (B1A and F4) in the earlier handicap series.
Vin Mariani and I put together the "NYC Hotlaps 2008" course in March with the handicap in mind. We had several criteria:
1. The course needed to have a reasonably short lap time, around 8-12 minutes in a Trucordia Yawl, the reference boat. That translates to around 4 minutes in a Beach Cat and 20 minutes in a Tradewind.
2. The course needed to have upwind, downwind and reach legs.
3. The course needed to have several sharp turns.
4. The course needed to use waterways that were reasonably stable and unlikely to change by terraforming, building or boat moorings.
5. The course needed to include 'less commonly used' race markers, so hotlaps sailors could stay clear of fleet race boats.
After a bunch of different designs and many test laps in different boats, we settled on the present NYC Hotlaps 2008 configuration.
Is it perfect? Nope.
Is it good enough? We'll see.

... For instance we have the downwind issue: some of the boats in the handicap list are about at their best on a dead run downwind, while others prefer a 140 degree wind instead and making extra meters. NYC Hotlaps contains no dead run part.. So this capacity is not included in the formula...

Yes, I agree with that criticism. A perfect course might include a somewhat longer, more downwind segment.
The boat I think may suffer most on this course is the Trudeau Tradewind. The Tradewind flies on a run, but has a much tougher time beating windward. The boat's size and inertia make the upwind segment from St. Brendan Rock to the pink buoy in Santa Rosa especially problematic.
The earlier handicap conversion for the Tradewind was 0.53- 0.54. We have little data on the new course yet, but both Oli and I have Tradewind lap times that are considerably slower than predicted. Our lethargic performance could be a function of the course configuration.

[Jane Fossett]

Boat: Trucordia Yawl
Skipper: Jane Fossett
Crew: Solo
Course: NYC Hotlaps 2008
Wind: Predef Hotlaps- dir: 340, spd: 11.000000, dir+-: 0, spd+-: 0.000000, rate: 1.000000

[5:11] Start Line (052108): 1: Jane Fossett - +00:09:19
[5:11] Start Line (052108): Lap Times:
[5:11] Start Line (052108): Jane Fossett-- lap 0: +00:00:21
[5:11] Start Line (052108): Jane Fossett-- lap 1: +00:09:19
(net= 8:58)

Grassi has been verrrrry slow the past three days, so these numbers are probably a bit long.

[Jane Fossett]

Boat: Trucordia Yawl
Skipper: Jane Fossett
Crew: Solo
Course: NYC Hotlaps 2008
Wind: Predef Hotlaps- dir: 340, spd: 11.000000, dir+-: 0, spd+-: 0.000000, rate: 1.000000

[6:14] Start Line (052108): Race Results:
[6:14] Start Line (052108): 1: Jane Fossett - +00:11:16
[6:14] Start Line (052108): Lap Times:
[6:14] Start Line (052108): Jane Fossett-- lap 0: +00:02:33
[6:14] Start Line (052108): Jane Fossett-- lap 1: +00:11:16
[net=08:43]

I think that's the current record for a Yawl! I'll cross-post it, since we should post all average 'good laps' here.

[Liv Leigh]

You call that average? :O

[Jane Fossett]

You call that average? :O

The instant M1sha Dallin or RnSDriver Lane posts here,
believe me,
that lap time will be
less than average!

[Alain Gloster]

I think I posted this before but can't find it
Larinda Schooner
Hotlaps wind etc
8:26
8:26
8:30

[Jane Fossett]

I think I posted this before but can't find it
Larinda Schooner
Hotlaps wind etc
8:26
8:26
8:30

Yes, thank you!
A number of posts were apparently dropped yesterday, but I think I caught them on on the spreadsheet!

[M1sha Dallin]

A number of posts were apparently dropped yesterday, but I think I caught them on on the spreadsheet!

Mine? Can't remember the exact numbers but I think it was OK - not every day that a Yawl beats a JF skippered Larinda on the water .

[Jane Fossett]

A number of posts were apparently dropped yesterday, but I think I caught them on on the spreadsheet!

Mine? Can't remember the exact numbers but I think it was OK - not every day that a Yawl beats a JF skippered Larinda on the water .

Yes! M1sha's net 8:38 in a Yawl yesterday was pretty unforgettable, and it's on the spreadsheet!

[Alain Gloster]

Some more Larinda hotlaps
8:10
7:57
7:59